“You can be humbled by a trip”: 5 Questions for Zen Buddhist priest Kokyo Henkel

Henkel explains what how he thinks Buddhist practice might benefit psychonauts and how psychedelic practice might benefit Buddhists.

At around the same time Kokyo Henkel began practicing Buddhism, he started experimenting with psychedelics too. He took LSD and psilocybin at Grateful Dead shows in college and he was drawn to what felt to him like spiritual elements of the band’s culture: communal celebration, ritual, exploring the mind and body. In his studies at Brown University, Henkel learned about Zen Buddhism from a professor who was also a Buddhism practitioner. The elements of the mind revealed through both Buddhism and psychedelics overlapped for Henkel; reading Zen texts helped him understand what he was feeling on his trips.

As Henkel became more interested in Buddhism, he undertook training at the Tassajara Zen Monastery in the Santa Lucia mountains of central California, where alcohol and drugs are not allowed. He complied with the rule, and it wasn’t until 20 years later that Henkel, then a Buddhist priest, took up psychedelics again.

Researchers are increasingly interested in understanding the mystical and often spiritual experiences individuals can have while on psychedelics. Last week, Harvard put on a multi day symposium called “Psychedelics in Monotheistic Traditions: Sacramental Practice and Legal Recognition,” and Henkel recently spoke at the Psychedelic Buddhism 2025 conference about how “Buddhist practice might benefit psychonauts and how psychedelic practice might benefit Buddhanauts.” He delved into what that means for The Microdose.

What do we know about the history of psychedelics in the Buddhist traditions? And, relatedly, do you find Buddhist influences on modern psychedelic culture?

There’s not much known for sure, but one teacher, Mike Crowley, a British Lama in the Tibetan tradition, has done some research about Vajrayana or Tantric Buddhism, which started in India and became more popular in present-day Tibet and America. That’s the Buddhist tradition that would be most connected to these substances, and substances are a prominent part of their practice, though they’re not psychoactive; ritually, they’re made with herbs, and it’s called Amrita, which in Sanskrit means “going beyond death.” Amrita is closely related to Soma, another substance that goes way back to the time of Buddha, and predates Buddhism. In Crowley’s book, Secret Drugs of Buddhism, he argues that there was some kind of substance involved in rituals or initiations but what exactly the original substances were has been lost.

As for modern times, psychedelics and Buddhism had a natural convergence in 1960s America. Many of the elder Buddhist practitioners started using psychedelics in the 1960s; they felt there was something worth exploring about the ideas they encountered while on them, but when they looked at their own culture, they didn’t find much. Instead, many found Buddhism and other eastern religions, which seem to talk more about the mind, and specifically, alternate states of mind.

Why else do you think so many people are drawn to Buddhism after trying psychedelics?

Like psychedelics, it’s a very experiential tradition. And unlike mainstream Christianity, Buddhism doesn’t emphasize direct experience with God as much; rather, it’s always been based around meditation, exploring the mind and the relief of suffering, and the unity of all beings is emphasized. Especially in Mahayana Buddhism, there’s exploration of the idea that we’re not separate from one another, which is what many people feel while on psychedelics. Mahayana presents a very precise way of talking about what that feeling comes from, and which distortions of mind obscure that reality. I think many people who are exploring something outside the mainstream, like psychedelics, are often also looking outside the religions they grew up with, and have felt that Buddhism is something new and more alive.

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You mentioned that at the monastery where you trained, Tassajara Zen Monastery, there are guidelines that forbid alcohol and drugs. Do Buddhist texts specifically address the use of mind altering substances like drugs and alcohol?

There are a range of opinions on how to interpret the fifth precept in Buddhist texts, which says to “refrain from intoxicants.” If we go back to the original language from the Buddha’s time, in 5th century BC, that precept actually said “refrain from alcohol.” He specifically singled out alcohol because it leads to heedlessness. Some of the other precepts, like ones that tell you to refrain from killing or stealing, don’t give such explanations, perhaps because it’s obvious why those things are harmful. But for alcohol or intoxicants, it’s not so much that they’re harmful in their very nature but Buddha was very practical: we should refrain because those substances could lead to heedlessness or carelessness around other precepts.

You could say that leaves a sort of loophole. My reading of it is that if you are trying to practice Buddhism with that fifth precept, you have to ask yourself: does whatever substance or activity you’re engaged in around it create more carelessness and harm to others or yourself? Or might there instead even be a benefit? Could this make you more openhearted?

In your opinion, what can psychonauts learn from Buddhists?

In Buddhism, there’s the idea that it’s important to understand conceptually what you’re doing before you start meditation so you can refine it and take it in the directions you want. I think you can take that idea into psychedelics to create a trellis or conceptual framework to guide a journey as well.

One model could be the five aggregates in Buddhism - they’re elements of body and mind that we often mistakenly identify with as some fixed, separate self. Those aggregates include the body’s physical sense faculties: feelings, as in pleasant or unpleasant sensation; conceptions, the way we conceptualize and name things in the world; karmic formations, which are habitual tendencies unique to each person, as in your personality or patterns; and lastly, dualistic consciousness, which is your mind noticing an object separate from itself. All of these things are always changing, so this is a map of mind of personal experience that doesn’t involve the idea of an unchanging singular self. During a psychedelic experience, people might explore this framework, especially if you start to fixate on one particular aggregate.

There are also disciplines of Buddhist practice that can be good for psychedelic experiences, like sitting still, and breathing deeply into your lower belly. These are used in meditation but can also be helpful and grounding when the mind starts to worry a little during a trip, especially at a higher dose. You can just breathe and settle in; there’s a spirit of surrender to let go and accept what you’re feeling.

And what do you think Buddhists might learn from psychonauts?

I think it could be helpful for people who are at the beginning of their Buddhist practice to have some direct experience with some Buddhist teachings. People hear this idea of no separate self, but it’s hard to really understand it; a sense of unity doesn’t just happen every day when you sit down to meditate, but psychedelics can give you a taste of that reality. Of course, it can be hit or miss; not every psychedelic experience has that element, but it could shift one’s perspective.

It can also be helpful to someone who’s been practicing for a long time, but are maybe in a bit of a rut spiritually; perhaps they’re just going through the motions but feel like they’ve lost their original inspirations. Psychedelics might be a jumpstart to their practice. Or perhaps it can be a sort of test to long-time practitioners who feel confident in their own stability and meditation practice; you can be humbled by a trip.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity and length.