I heartily agree that an interdisciplinary approach is necessary for understanding the experiences that psychedelics engender. As a result of my first LSD experience in 1970, I pursued an interdisciplinary PhD at UC Berkeley, comprised of anthropology and clinical psychology called CULTURE AND MENTAL HEALTH. It has served me well in my career and recently in the making of a documentary on using psychedelics for healing PTSD entitled FROM SHOCK TO AWE. Keep up the good work!!!
"Another concrete example is understanding mystical experiences. Our group was talking about some of Rick Strassman’s work and how he had been curious if DMT would occasion mystical experiences. The conclusion ultimately was no, not really, for very very few people – and Sarah asked, what kind of experiences do people have on DMT? When we started to tell her, her response was: whether that’s a mystical experience or not depends on the framework you’re using. There are people who would say those absolutely sound like mystical experiences! But if you’re coming from a strictly Christian framework, they’re not going to look particularly mystical."
I think that the term "mystical experience" has to be looked at clinically from a perspective of such terms as "ineffability", "ego loss", "intensity", "unity - internal and external", "meaningfulness", "boundlessness". The paper attached to by the link provides terms and metrics that are not tied to a particular religious frame, "Factor Analysis of the Mystical Experience Questionnaire: A Study of Experiences Occasioned by the Hallucinogen Psilocybin"
Psychedelic studies should be approached from a variety of frames - not only one - to see where and how they have positive applicability to improving not only mental health, but a plethora of human problems that include but are not limited to, ecological alienation, political and social fragmentation, addictions, et cetera.
From where I sit, psychedelics are a necessary part of breaking our species out of dangerous patterns of behaviour that endanger the evolutionary experiment that is human intelligence. (We also may not have the luxury of a great deal of time to make very challenging changes, so research in this area is of great importance.)
Hi Nicholas, thank you so much for your comment. I favor the synonyms you listed pertaining to defining a mystical experience. We have many talks about this and about this questionnaire. I think an outlier that our group has found is that, while most literature highlights “ego death/ loss”, little to no literature discusses that such an experience is not always possible. We have even gone as far as discussing how those that have lived very traumatic experiences throughout their lives may not ever be able to fully achieve that lost sense of self; as their brain has conditioned itself to build a psychological (well, chemical) wall when faced with a flooding of chemicals (once from trauma, but now the flood from of chemicals from the medicines). I have never explained it in writing before so let me know if I can better explain that. This phenomenon blew my mind when I first understood it!
I agree and favor all else that you said. I am motivated to study these substances for means of addiction recovery among other things so I absolutely appreciate your comment! 🙌🏼
"I think an outlier that our group has found is that, while most literature highlights “ego death/ loss”, little to no literature discusses that such an experience is not always possible. We have even gone as far as discussing how those that have lived very traumatic experiences throughout their lives may not ever be able to fully achieve that lost sense of self; as their brain has conditioned itself to build a psychological (well, chemical) wall when faced with a flooding of chemicals (once from trauma, but now the flood from of chemicals from the medicines). "
Interesting observation concerning ego death / ego loss. I am wondering if a gentler approach that is not introduced via entheogen might lead to a similar result or is the wall of deep trauma essentially impermeable in the situation that you cite.
The experience of sense reduction environments is decidedly less threatening since a person can always open the door of a tank and leave if they find that the anxiety reaction is too difficult to allow ego death / ego loss. I could see that the anxiety surrounding a loss of control may be a factor, and providing a means to head towards ego death / ego loss while still allowing a person a sense of agency without anxiety might overcome this.
Music can also provide this, and especially some forms of classical music. Music has a remarkable ability to do this. I remember the first time that I heard the 6th movement of Mahler's 3rd, and it left me utterly silent, spent, and empty. Duality collapsed. (I called it the LSD of classical music at the time.)
I am a registered dietitian with a MS in Human Nutrition, and am considering going back for dissertation research related to plant medicines. My field is SO broad and multi-faceted, but unfortunately, we don't focus too much on psychology in undergraduate (or graduate) coursework, and I don't know of any dietitians involved with psychedelic plant medicine research.
I think registered dietitians may be able to provide valuable perspectives in psychedelic research, especially ethnobotanical studies. This article was really encouraging for me, thank you!
Yes to the Midnight Gospel. Duncan Trussell is an open and experienced user of psychedelics, unsurprisingly if you've watched the show (or listened to his podcast, the Duncan Trussell Family Hour).
I heartily agree that an interdisciplinary approach is necessary for understanding the experiences that psychedelics engender. As a result of my first LSD experience in 1970, I pursued an interdisciplinary PhD at UC Berkeley, comprised of anthropology and clinical psychology called CULTURE AND MENTAL HEALTH. It has served me well in my career and recently in the making of a documentary on using psychedelics for healing PTSD entitled FROM SHOCK TO AWE. Keep up the good work!!!
"Another concrete example is understanding mystical experiences. Our group was talking about some of Rick Strassman’s work and how he had been curious if DMT would occasion mystical experiences. The conclusion ultimately was no, not really, for very very few people – and Sarah asked, what kind of experiences do people have on DMT? When we started to tell her, her response was: whether that’s a mystical experience or not depends on the framework you’re using. There are people who would say those absolutely sound like mystical experiences! But if you’re coming from a strictly Christian framework, they’re not going to look particularly mystical."
I think that the term "mystical experience" has to be looked at clinically from a perspective of such terms as "ineffability", "ego loss", "intensity", "unity - internal and external", "meaningfulness", "boundlessness". The paper attached to by the link provides terms and metrics that are not tied to a particular religious frame, "Factor Analysis of the Mystical Experience Questionnaire: A Study of Experiences Occasioned by the Hallucinogen Psilocybin"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3539773/
Psychedelic studies should be approached from a variety of frames - not only one - to see where and how they have positive applicability to improving not only mental health, but a plethora of human problems that include but are not limited to, ecological alienation, political and social fragmentation, addictions, et cetera.
From where I sit, psychedelics are a necessary part of breaking our species out of dangerous patterns of behaviour that endanger the evolutionary experiment that is human intelligence. (We also may not have the luxury of a great deal of time to make very challenging changes, so research in this area is of great importance.)
Hi Nicholas, thank you so much for your comment. I favor the synonyms you listed pertaining to defining a mystical experience. We have many talks about this and about this questionnaire. I think an outlier that our group has found is that, while most literature highlights “ego death/ loss”, little to no literature discusses that such an experience is not always possible. We have even gone as far as discussing how those that have lived very traumatic experiences throughout their lives may not ever be able to fully achieve that lost sense of self; as their brain has conditioned itself to build a psychological (well, chemical) wall when faced with a flooding of chemicals (once from trauma, but now the flood from of chemicals from the medicines). I have never explained it in writing before so let me know if I can better explain that. This phenomenon blew my mind when I first understood it!
I agree and favor all else that you said. I am motivated to study these substances for means of addiction recovery among other things so I absolutely appreciate your comment! 🙌🏼
"I think an outlier that our group has found is that, while most literature highlights “ego death/ loss”, little to no literature discusses that such an experience is not always possible. We have even gone as far as discussing how those that have lived very traumatic experiences throughout their lives may not ever be able to fully achieve that lost sense of self; as their brain has conditioned itself to build a psychological (well, chemical) wall when faced with a flooding of chemicals (once from trauma, but now the flood from of chemicals from the medicines). "
Interesting observation concerning ego death / ego loss. I am wondering if a gentler approach that is not introduced via entheogen might lead to a similar result or is the wall of deep trauma essentially impermeable in the situation that you cite.
The experience of sense reduction environments is decidedly less threatening since a person can always open the door of a tank and leave if they find that the anxiety reaction is too difficult to allow ego death / ego loss. I could see that the anxiety surrounding a loss of control may be a factor, and providing a means to head towards ego death / ego loss while still allowing a person a sense of agency without anxiety might overcome this.
Music can also provide this, and especially some forms of classical music. Music has a remarkable ability to do this. I remember the first time that I heard the 6th movement of Mahler's 3rd, and it left me utterly silent, spent, and empty. Duality collapsed. (I called it the LSD of classical music at the time.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJw0slhUWek
There are other means and some are complementary.
I am a registered dietitian with a MS in Human Nutrition, and am considering going back for dissertation research related to plant medicines. My field is SO broad and multi-faceted, but unfortunately, we don't focus too much on psychology in undergraduate (or graduate) coursework, and I don't know of any dietitians involved with psychedelic plant medicine research.
I think registered dietitians may be able to provide valuable perspectives in psychedelic research, especially ethnobotanical studies. This article was really encouraging for me, thank you!
Yes to the Midnight Gospel. Duncan Trussell is an open and experienced user of psychedelics, unsurprisingly if you've watched the show (or listened to his podcast, the Duncan Trussell Family Hour).
Can’t wait for another (hopefully?) season!! 😄